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Thread: hard starting

  1. #16
    Seat Tester
    My Bike(s)
    81 XJ550 Maxum
    Location
    Great North Woods NH
    Posts
    64

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  3. #17
    Newbie
    My Bike(s)
    yamahaxs1100
    Location
    Durban , RSA
    Posts
    13
    thanks for the info, all has been followed up and tried, I cleaned the carbs again today,they were spotless, and can almost swear that the problem is not with the carbs,I even lifted the floats to make sure there is enough fuel to enrich starting, nothing helped, for awhile I have been thinking about voltage drop or a problem with the electrics somewhere, I think the choke is flooding it, and after much cranking, and when the mixture is lean enough, does it fire up, or the fuel on the air filters coming through lean enough to fire up,where would I start on the electrics, and ideas.

  4. #18
    Newbie
    My Bike(s)
    yamahaxs1100
    Location
    Durban , RSA
    Posts
    13
    Sorry, but if there was a leak around the inlet manifolds, idling would be effected, so I doubt that one.

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  6. #19
    Super Moderator

    My Bike(s)
    Vulcan 900, Can-AM Spyder
    Location
    Ocala, FL
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    10,947
    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel View Post
    Sorry, but if there was a leak around the inlet manifolds, idling would be effected, so I doubt that one.
    OK, I give up.
    You seem to know everything already so why exactly did you post here to begin with ??

    Whether or not the idle is adversely affected depends on where the leak IS, how bad it IS and whether or not an adjustment has been made to compensate for it at idle.

    I'm done.
    Don't believe everything that you think.

  7. #20
    Seat Tester
    My Bike(s)
    81 XJ550 Maxum
    Location
    Great North Woods NH
    Posts
    64
    did you clean out the passage in the bottom of the carb bowl that goes into the side wall of the bowl where the enrichment circuit tube resides and picks up fuel?

    I would suggest that you ohm out the coils and spark plug caps and pick up coils to rule them out.
    when you used the car battery to jump start the bike your voltage likely did not drop below the 9.5 plus volts to fire the tci.
    have you checked the valve shims clearances?

  8. #21
    M-J Lifetime Achievement Award
    My Bike(s)
    Yamaha MT09
    Location
    Perth WA
    Posts
    6,142
    Plug caps/cable/coils in that order. On older Jap bikes the cables are sealed to the caps and coils using a glue that breaks down over time making the joint susceptible to weather ingress. The cables can also become loose causing poor contact.
    Smoke me a kipper I'll be home in time for breakfast

  9. #22
    Seat Tester
    My Bike(s)
    81 XJ550 Maxum
    Location
    Great North Woods NH
    Posts
    64
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Steve View Post
    Plug caps/cable/coils in that order. On older Jap bikes the cables are sealed to the caps and coils using a glue that breaks down over time making the joint susceptible to weather ingress. The cables can also become loose causing poor contact.
    plug wire glued to coils spark plug caps screw on . some times the wire needs to be cut back at the cap due to corrosion.

    the pick up coils can fail leaving you with 2 cylinders running hard to start. coils are for cyl. 1&4 set and cyl 2&3 set
    .

  10. #23
    Newbie
    My Bike(s)
    yamahaxs1100
    Location
    Durban , RSA
    Posts
    13
    as the bike idles perfectly, I doubt if there are any vacuum leaks around intake manifold, the spark could be a problem, is there any way of testing apart from the way it looks or sounds, could there be a voltage drop somewhere, performance is absolutely perfect in every respect, except for hard starting

  11. #24
    Newbie
    My Bike(s)
    yamahaxs1100
    Location
    Durban , RSA
    Posts
    13
    Hi Easy Rider, I`m sorry if I seem to know it all, I come from a motorcycle racing background,and have been building and riding bikes since my memory was working, close to 60 yrs, but this one has me stumped, numerous friends have tried their luck, but no success yet, that`s why I tried this column, I appreciate all advice, and am still battling to start, the only advice I haven`t tried is XJ550 advice, which I shall do tomorrow

  12. #25
    Super Moderator

    My Bike(s)
    Vulcan 900, Can-AM Spyder
    Location
    Ocala, FL
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    10,947
    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel View Post
    performance is absolutely perfect in every respect, except for hard starting
    THAT would have been good to say in your FIRST post.

    This leads to the conclusion that something is wrong with the choke/enricher circuit making it too lean when cold starting.
    ALL of the intake comprises part of the low speed fuel metering circuit; that includes the air box and the filter itself.
    Just having a "high flow" air filter on it (with or without pipes) can sometimes make it hard to start cold......but usually not a problem hot.

    Is it also hard to start when hot/warm ??

    The way to solve stuff like this is to continue a polite discussion.
    Dismissing things out of hand just pisses people off and tends to end the discussion quickly.
    Don't believe everything that you think.

  13. #26
    Seat Tester
    My Bike(s)
    81 XJ550 Maxum
    Location
    Great North Woods NH
    Posts
    64
    do a voltage drop test on the bike hook a meter to it press the starter button and see what it drops to .
    then test the charging system for proper voltage.


    * approximately 500-2000 rpms: 11.8 volts gradually increasing to 14.2 volts
    * 2000+ rpms: 14.2 volts up to about 14.8 volts, with a maximum of 14.8 volts

    sometimes you have to lap the enrichment plungers back into the seats.

    can you confirm that the well in the side of the bowl goes thru to the hole in the bottom of the bowl when you spray carb cleaner it it?

    if you remove the enrichment plunger and spray cleaner into the plunger hole does cleaner drip from the pick up tube?

  14. #27
    Super Moderator

    My Bike(s)
    Vulcan 900, Can-AM Spyder
    Location
    Ocala, FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJ550H View Post
    approximately 500-2000 rpms: 11.8 volts
    On an engine with a modern solid state voltage regulator (less than 30 years old), the voltage should NEVER be below about 12.8......which is the resting batter voltage.
    If it IS below 12.5, then your idle speed is too low or something else is wrong.
    Don't believe everything that you think.

  15. #28
    Seat Tester
    My Bike(s)
    81 XJ550 Maxum
    Location
    Great North Woods NH
    Posts
    64
    Quote Originally Posted by Easy Rider View Post
    On an engine with a modern solid state voltage regulator (less than 30 years old), the voltage should NEVER be below about 12.8......which is the resting batter voltage.
    If it IS below 12.5, then your idle speed is too low or something else is wrong.
    his idle rpm should be 1200 rpm the spec reflects just starting the bike and the drain on the battery that results

  16. #29
    Super Moderator

    My Bike(s)
    Vulcan 900, Can-AM Spyder
    Location
    Ocala, FL
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    10,947
    Quote Originally Posted by XJ550H View Post
    his idle rpm should be 1200 rpm the spec reflects just starting the bike and the drain on the battery that results
    What spec ?? You should NEVER see 11.8 V at the battery......except maybe while the starter is running.
    And you should never see anything below 12.6 at the recommended idle speed.
    Don't believe everything that you think.

  17. #30
    Seat Tester
    My Bike(s)
    81 XJ550 Maxum
    Location
    Great North Woods NH
    Posts
    64
    when you turn on the key on an xs or xj the first thing that happens is the tail light and plate light comes on relays close tci starts drawing on battery then when you press the starter button the head light comes on all draining the battery before the bike starts. then the voltage rises back to normal as the bike comes up to idle on the bike. the bike is draining the battery untill the alternator is turning at recomended idle rpm then slowly rises to 14.2 volts.
    nothing wrong with the bike except it has a 37 year old alternator.

    if you read what i stated

    * approximately 500-2000 rpms: 11.8 volts gradually increasing to 14.2 volts

    it states the range of voltage from 500 rpm to 2000 rpm is 11.8 to 14.2

    if your battery is getting old the voltage drop when you press the start button will be greater and on the yamaha if your voltage drop isbelow 9.5 volts the tci will not fire and the bike will not start.


 
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