Ranting v. 2.0

[QZephyr]

I just found out that our local provider asked for money to develop a nuclear reactor for our area. They were turned down and now they want to raise our rates so they can get the money from the customers to build the facility. The problem is they didn't ask us if we want that. We have wind farms in the state but none are close to home yet but I expect them someday. We constantly see the pieces going by on the interstate. Couldn't Africa benefit from wind energy since they don't have an abundance of water sources?

[Motorcycle Forum]

[tallannie]

Nuclear may not be the holy grail... but calling nuclear is 'equally bad' to coal and oil....or that the storage of spent fuel is an 'ecological disaster"....is gross exaggeration.

Back in the dark ages (okay, the mid 1980s) when I was in college, I took a philosophy class called "The Ethics of War and Nuclear Deterrence."

During this class, the professor organized a debate pro/contra nuclear power and nuclear weapons.

Most everyone knew that I was/am a pacifist - I find the whole concept of war and killing people to defend some arbitrary (and man-made) lines in the sand to be senseless. However, I took the pro-nuclear position in this debate because of the advances in nuclear medicine - how radiation therapy is being used to fight cancer.

I think that the whole energy debate will get more confusing before it's over. Nuclear power is (theoretically) CO2-neutral - water in, steam out. However, the mining, refining and ultimate storage of the nuclear fuel is an ecological disaster. Burning coal or oil is equally bad - pumping millions of tons of CO2 and other crap into the atmosphere. Hydroelectric power is fine for those who live near rivers or oceans, but what about Africa and other desert regions? Solar power is not very efficient, and also has a huge environmental impact for the production of the solar cells - this could be a solution for parts of Africa, but it is still subject to terrorism or vandalism because of it's size / land needs. We're still looking for the "holy grail" of energy production...

[inspiron]

Nuclear may not be the holy grail... but calling nuclear is 'equally bad' to coal and oil....or that the storage of spent fuel is an 'ecological disaster"....is gross exaggeration.

Hmmm... Having to store and secure tons of highly toxic, contaminated waste for about 1,000 generations (22,000 years) while waiting for it to decay down to something slightly less toxic is not exactly environmentally friendly.

But yes, drilling for, pumping, transporting and refining oil, or mining and transporting coal just to burn it for energy is also remarkably stupid.

Again, I would be most happy if we could finally harness cold fusion - or find a cost-effective way to produce and store large quantities of anti-matter, so that we can produce energy with essentially no by-products. But I doubt that this is going to happen in my lifetime...

[tallannie]

I agree about fusion....

...it is eye opening to read the first page of hits from a Google search on the topic... "compare nuclear to coal deaths"

...and buried deep in rock is a lot more environmentally friendly than released to the air..or dumped in fly ash piles...

Anne

Hmmm... Having to store and secure tons of highly toxic, contaminated waste for about 1,000 generations (22,000 years) while waiting for it to decay down to something slightly less toxic is not exactly environmentally friendly.

But yes, drilling for, pumping, transporting and refining oil, or mining and transporting coal just to burn it for energy is also remarkably stupid.

Again, I would be most happy if we could finally harness cold fusion - or find a cost-effective way to produce and store large quantities of anti-matter, so that we can produce energy with essentially no by-products. But I doubt that this is going to happen in my lifetime...

[pugsly]

i am jumping in at the end of a conversation here but i will always support coal as a viable means of electricity due top the fact i live in a south eastern kentucky town and coal is a big bread winner around here many familys benefit from the usage of coal

[omegajim]

just happy that the phrase "clean coal" ran its course and is now r.i.p.

Energy is a matter of choices, coal, oil and to a lesser extent natural gas - dump pollutants into the air.

Nuclear, you have high level waste.

Solar, great for the daytime hours.

Wind, intermittent.

Our planet as a whole needs to work away from the "burning" something or "stockpiling" the waste from something, but to what end that is, the jury is out.

Conservation can help, but that only goes so far, and then people buy bigger televisions, more powerful microwaves, etc.

It would appear that our energy needs and those sources are and will be in transition for quite some time - right now, the gov't pushing this the hardest appears to be the Chinese with the German gov't close behind.

At the least, these countries will be proving for good or ill, what methods for generation work, which ones are marginal, and what is out and out foolhardy.

Currently, the biggest limitation I see (beyond the fact you can only move the power so far and then you have to build an insane power grid to move the power) is there is as yet no good way to store the power. An entire zip code of a bank of batteries is not only expensive (I've heard numbers of 20 cents a kilowatt, but that is old info) but in great enough numbers, a pretty good chance of a fire hazard.

so, who knows. not me.

[inspiron]

I notice the difference as I'm looking for appliances for my new house.

The refridgerator for example: I'm looking at a (US-style) side-by-side with ice and water in the door. There are a few manufacturers (LG, Samsung, Bosch/Siemens, Whirlpool/Bauknecht) selling these in Germany. The major difference is the energy rating - the best I've found so far are rated A++ - with an estimated energy use of less than 1 kW per day (about 350 per year). The next level (A+) use 100 kW more energy (around 450 kW per year). Sure, energy is relatively cheap (something like 25 cents per kW), but that still adds up to about $250 over 10 years...

[tricker]

nothing to see here.... just passing by

[intimid8er]

Nope...just a few diehards holding it down.

[tallannie]

I am gonna rant on the local weather man... ! my goodness with all the tools they have at their disposal cant they produce a decent riding day....? Once a week would be fine people !! Seriously, they have been predicting clear but cold in the mid 40's and I have been itching to ride for days....but we keep being socked in by a snowy fog at the mid 30's instead !! GRRRRRRRRRR

[QZephyr]

I've been getting the opposite. They've been telling us one temp and I decide not to ride and then it turns out 10 degrees higher. I find out when it's too late. My bike is at my mom's and I have to plan visiting in with the ride. My dad is gone and mom gets excited when any of us stop by.

[tallannie]

Wish my mom was around to go visit...

[QZephyr]

I wish my dad was still here. I sympathize with you.

[AfterDarker]

My mum is an 83 yo widow and loves it when I take a Sunday ride to visit. This has turned out to be a nice motorcycling ritual for me... Ah sorry I should be ranting... Too much rain ... Coldest summer in Sydney for 50 years.. Rant growl gnash

[omegajim]

The next level (A+) use 100 kW more energy (around 450 kW per year). Sure, energy is relatively cheap (something like 25 cents per kW), but that still adds up to about $250 over 10 years...

I always chuckle at the absolutely ridiculous amount of energy (small amounts of energy) that are saved and the expense (huge expense) you should shovel for the minimal savings.

For example, there's an energy fair here in these fine states, near stevens point, WI (and no, nobody who knows anything should have any idea of where that is other than it is close to the U.P. of Michigan) and they were showing a fancy super dandy efficient fridge. If memory serves, the amount of energy it took on average was 500 watts.

The problem with this super efficient fridge?

It costs $3200.

Or, to put it another way, the cost of a used fridge (picked it up from a guy at work) for $75 and run it on max cold for 20 years before break even.

However, if one was to go "off the grid" this insanely expensive fridge makes more sense; for reasons that I am too lazy to explain, living off the grid usually involves spending more money (by far) than being hooked up to that dopey ole' power company.