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Discussion Starter #1
I've had my Washington permit for years but getting one for across the border in Oregon has eluded me up until now.
It's been a PITA because I live right near the border and being an Orygun native most of what's left of my family is there as well as old friends and much of the best riding in the whole damn USA.
I've seen ads in local papers etc. for a long time to take these classes which can get me Utah and Oregon permits good in some 35 states outsides of Oregon and Washington but always during the day on weekdays so conflicting with my work schedule.
Well I've been on vacation this week and as some of you know working on an old Ironhead, stopped into Columbia H-D in Vancouver, WA to pickup a primary cover gasket for the old bike and saw a flyer for the same CC classes being held right there at the dealer on Saturdays.
:bluethum:
Signed up for Oct. 25th and will soon be legal in a lot of places besides here at home ,most importantly in Oregon which is a hard state to get licensed in especially for non-residents.

 

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Great, but watch out for Colorado they have restrictions based on residency of state of issue. That 100 year old technology is still impressive.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Great, but watch out for Colorado they have restrictions based on residency of state of issue. That 100 year old technology is still impressive.
Yup and yeah I love my 1911.:bluethum:
The S&W shoots real sweet and in Scandium alloy it's also pretty lightweight for a full size frame 1911 at just over 28oz.
 

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That is a couple of nice looking pistoles. :bluethum:

I usually carry this in a shoulder holster.

m1.jpg

The Legendary Model 1 .45 Colt/.410

Length: 4.82 inches
Barrel: 3 inches
Height: 3.35 inches
Frame width: .9 inch
Grip width: 1.2 inches
Weight: 15 oz.
2-shots with automatic barrel selection
All American Derringers are equipped with a manually operated Hammer Block type safety. The safety automatically disengages when the hammer is cocked.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I also have a li'l Colt Agent .38sp.

Lightweight alloy version of the Detective.

 

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Discussion Starter #9
My biggest hand gun, carried under the seat of my work commuter S10 pickup.
It can drive nails at 50 yards lol.

.44 mag
 

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I'm a Canadian. Love guns.

But I gotta be curious as to what percent of people who carry 24/7 actual have had to use it on another human being. Obviously it'd vary from place to place, but does anyone know?

I recently saw a video of the aftermath of a guy shooting a coyote with his CC, but because it was going after his much bigger dog. I think that stuff's great, because next thing you know it could be a kid that thing goes after… but all in all I'm not sure if I'd be one to carry 24/7.

Sincerely, Reed J
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I'm a Canadian. Love guns.

But I gotta be curious as to what percent of people who carry 24/7 actual have had to use it on another human being. Obviously it'd vary from place to place, but does anyone know?

I recently saw a video of the aftermath of a guy shooting a coyote with his CC, but because it was going after his much bigger dog. I think that stuff's great, because next thing you know it could be a kid that thing goes after… but all in all I'm not sure if I'd be one to carry 24/7.

Sincerely, Reed J
I've had to pull a piece once,5 punks and one old man (me).
Sam Colt more than equalized the situation, I didn't have to shoot they left.
One might never need to pull his weapon in a lifetime but I always say it's better to have one and not need it than to need one and not have it.
 

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For actually shooting the number is tiny but using a gun to stop a crime is 1.5-3 million a year. I've never needed to use a gun but once back in '04 I wish I had one and didn't; never again.
 

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Wow. Really interesting to hear. And at the same time, I'm sorry to hear that from you two! Especially with the unfortunate events in Canada recently.

Up here, what actual concerns me the most is the likely forgotten issue of 3-D printing guns.

Maybe Canadian's will end up open carrying too... But the idea of open carrying an assault rifle in public still does rattle my bones though.
 

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I was discussing this with a friend this past weekend. My friend, a native of Vienna, Austria, finds this whole discussion amusing.

In western Europe, there are strict controls on all kinds of weapons - no one except law enforcement is allowed to carry a concealed weapon, and most countries forbid open carrying of a loaded weapon. It's just not part of the culture here - there is no need to be armed.

As a homeowner, I have a large MagLite flashlight in my nightstand, and I'm considering buying a "Jo" (a 4-foot oak pole, used in martial arts training), since I am trained how to use it to defend myself and control an attacker. Most robberies and burglaries here are committed by people who are not armed with anything more than a knife or a screwdriver, and they normally will flee if they are confronted. My Aikido training and a "Jo" is more than enough advantage if someone tries to attack me - they'll need a doctor. There is simply no need to carry a firearm in most western European countries. (And in places like the Ukraine, a handgun isn't going to help you against a paramilitary regiment armed with AK-47s and grenade launchers either.)
 

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In western Europe, there are strict controls on all kinds of weapons - no one except law enforcement is allowed to carry a concealed weapon, and most countries forbid open carrying of a loaded weapon. It's just not part of the culture here - there is no need to be armed.
I wish I could think of it as amusing but I can't.

ANYTHING that contributes to the proliferation of more lethal weapons is going to be a bad thing in the long run.
The European's seem to have figured that out using logic and reasoning.......whereas the US makes it a political football.

So let's look at the current evidence:
EVERY DAY I see on the news multiple reports of armed robberies, drive by shootings, or some nut that goes berserk and kills multiple people.
The weapon of choice almost never is a knife or a pipe or ball bat. It is a gun.

Almost every day I also see reports of young kids killing each other by mistake while playing with Dad's guns; some days it's even Dad that makes the mistake.
And how many times do I see reports of some fine upstanding citizen actually stopping a crime because he is carrying.........almost none.
It's more likely that Granny will fend off a robber with her cane than with a gun.

And lastly, do I feel more secure knowing that "fine upstanding citizens" are now carrying a piece to protect themselves and maybe me too.
Hell no; quite the opposite. I think I am more likely to be killed or injured by a "legal" gun than by an illegal one.
 

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"To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe."
- Noah Webster

This grand experiment handed down by our forefathers had never been tried before in all the worlds’ history. The idea of individual liberty combined with property rights was unique as was the idea of an armed populace. Kings and tyrants don’t like armed citizens or liberty forthat matter. Our founders armed the citizen to guaranty we could keep our freedom.
Dr. Gary Kleck, Dr. John Lott, Dr. JamesWright and Dr. Peter Rossi have all concluded armed citizens reduce crime.
 

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Some people call me Paranoid for carrying a gun. That is ridiculous.

What do I have to be paranoid about, I have a gun.

There are few places you will see me without my gun. I drove a school bus load of 6th graders to Little Rock today, one the few times I have been anywhere unarmed.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
I wish I could think of it as amusing but I can't.

ANYTHING that contributes to the proliferation of more lethal weapons is going to be a bad thing in the long run.
The European's seem to have figured that out using logic and reasoning.......whereas the US makes it a political football.

So let's look at the current evidence:
EVERY DAY I see on the news multiple reports of armed robberies, drive by shootings, or some nut that goes berserk and kills multiple people.
The weapon of choice almost never is a knife or a pipe or ball bat. It is a gun.

Almost every day I also see reports of young kids killing each other by mistake while playing with Dad's guns; some days it's even Dad that makes the mistake.
And how many times do I see reports of some fine upstanding citizen actually stopping a crime because he is carrying.........almost none.
It's more likely that Granny will fend off a robber with her cane than with a gun.

And lastly, do I feel more secure knowing that "fine upstanding citizens" are now carrying a piece to protect themselves and maybe me too.
Hell no; quite the opposite. I think I am more likely to be killed or injured by a "legal" gun than by an illegal one.
With all due respect I think most of that is a bunch of hogwash, the liberal media always reports on gun violence by criminals (who don't carry or own guns legally and will be unaffected by any gun grab laws) but almost never reports it when a citizen defends themselves from a criminal with a legally owned and carried gun.


Crime and Self-Defense




* Roughly 16,272 murders were committed in the United States during 2008. Of these, about 10,886 or 67% were committed with firearms.



* A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 0.5% of households had members who had used a gun for defense during a situation in which they thought someone "almost certainly would have been killed" if they "had not used a gun for protection." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 162,000 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all "military service, police work, or work as a security guard."



* Based on survey data from the U.S. Department of Justice, roughly 5,340,000 violent crimes were committed in the United States during 2008. These include simple/aggravated assaults, robberies, sexual assaults, rapes, and murders. Of these, about 436,000 or 8% were committed by offenders visibly armed with a gun.



* Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.



* A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 3.5% of households had members who had used a gun "for self-protection or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 1,029,615 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all "military service, police work, or work as a security guard."



* A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times per year.



* A 1982 survey of male felons in 11 state prisons dispersed across the U.S. found:



• 34% had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"

• 40% had decided not to commit a crime because they "knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun"

• 69% personally knew other criminals who had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"
 

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The problem I see is that the arguments presented here, i.e. "gun ownership reduces crime," is a fallacy. Gun ownership, in my opinion, doesn't significantly impact the crime rate. The major cause of crime is the lack of social services - the fact that it is easy for huge parts of the population to fall into poverty with no light at the end of a long, dark tunnel. This leads to higher crime rates from drug and alcohol abuse as well as a general feeling of helplessness.

Look around at other countries - Canada is often taken as an example, where the murder rate is 1/3 of that in the USA (statistically, murders per 100.000 population). Switzerland is another example, where the murder rate is less than 20% than that in the USA. In both cases, the number of weapons per capita is almost the same as the USA.

Given this information, I doubt that gun ownership has a major impact on crime rates.

And for the record, there was a double-murder on Monday this week in Basel, Switzerland. A teenager with mental health issues stabbed two women to death and seriously injured another man. He was arrested a couple of hours later. There was no firearms used. If someone has the desire to hurt someone else, they will find a weapon even if there are no guns available.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The problem I see is that the arguments presented here, i.e. "gun ownership reduces crime," is a fallacy. Gun ownership, in my opinion, doesn't significantly impact the crime rate. The major cause of crime is the lack of social services - the fact that it is easy for huge parts of the population to fall into poverty with no light at the end of a long, dark tunnel. This leads to higher crime rates from drug and alcohol abuse as well as a general feeling of helplessness.

Look around at other countries - Canada is often taken as an example, where the murder rate is 1/3 of that in the USA (statistically, murders per 100.000 population). Switzerland is another example, where the murder rate is less than 20% than that in the USA. In both cases, the number of weapons per capita is almost the same as the USA.

Given this information, I doubt that gun ownership has a major impact on crime rates.

And for the record, there was a double-murder on Monday this week in Basel, Switzerland. A teenager with mental health issues stabbed two women to death and seriously injured another man. He was arrested a couple of hours later. There was no firearms used. If someone has the desire to hurt someone else, they will find a weapon even if there are no guns available.
If one of those women had a gun the perp with the knife would be dead instead.
By the way comparing the USA with Canada or anywhere in Europe is comparing apples and oranges, just say'n.

Here's one from the local news just today.
Intruder shot at by homeowner; arrested in nearby business in Pa - KPTV - FOX 12
 
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