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Discussion Starter #1
I am pretty close to getting an S83. I like the look of the smaller radiator and plan on doing some 2-up riding. I have a couple of questions...

First, what should I expect to pay. I have been to the local dealer, they always tell me MSRP, but I haven't started haggling about price. I read old topics that suggest that $1000 off MSRP is about right. Any comments. Any suggestions on dealers in the Dallas/FtWorth area?

Second, what do I need to do to this bike to get the best performance. I like the quiet sound of the stock pipes, so I probably won't change them. But do I need to rejet? Reset timing? K&N? etc.

Thanks. Tom
 

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Tom: I'm a newbie here in Dallas. FWIW, here's my two cents.

I was looking for an S50 last year. I first went to Plano Kawasaki/Suzuki and the two salesmen I met wouldn't give me the time of day after I told them I was a newbie. They probably would have spent hours with me if I had been an experienced rider. Then I went to Action Suzuki in Mesquite. They have a new building and it's a pretty cool dealership. They only sell Suzukis. The two salesmen I saw there were very helpful. Then I went to Sherman Power Sports (about an hour north of Dallas). They had a very friendly staff and they still had a 2004 VS 800 Intruder, which saved me almost $1,000 from the 2005 S50. I was happy with that and bought it.

In the last month I've been looking for a place to get my bike serviced. I called around to the same dealers plus Honda/Suzuki North in Dallas (I-35 & LBJ). I had several questions. Both the service & parts staff at Honda/Suzuki North seemed to be the most knowledgeable. They also seemed to be very honest (not willing to take my money for unnecessary maintenance).

That's about all I know about Suzukis in this area.

When I was looking for a bike last year, I was told by a friend (a motorcycle mechanic for 16 years) that $500 off the list price of an $8,000 bike was good. If you can get $1,000 off the sticker on an S83, I would think that's a great deal. But I'm new at this. I'm sure others on this site can give you better advice about negotiating a price.

When I sat on the S83 at the dealer, it fit me perfectly (I'm 6'2", 240 lbs). It's a beautiful bike. I decided to go with the smaller Intruder since I liked it so much and everyone told me that a 1400cc bike has too power for a beginner (they were probably right). You mentioned the smaller radiator - you probably know this, but the S83 is air/oil cooled. I don't think it has a radiator. Or is that what they call the part that cools the oil? DrBob will know.

Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks. I am over here closer to Ft. Worth. I went to Yamaha Suzuki of Texas over here in Hurst. The salesgirl seems pretty nice, somewhat knowledgable. I just don't know what to expect. I rode a Ninja 600 in college (15 yrs ago) and am just thinking about getting back into riding. I like the s50/s83 look, but don't really like the huge radiator on the front of the s50.

I may just go with the s50, I imagine the radiator will grow on me for $2000. I don't plan on doing alot of freeway miles, just some cruising around town and maybe some back highways with a couple of friends with harley's (one a souped up sportster, the other a softtail).
 

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When looking for a bike, I got as much info from my friend (the motorcycle mechanic) as possible. He said I should look for a:

1) liquid-cooled,
2) shaft-driven,
3) 1400 cc bike.

With the VS 800 (the 2004 version of the S50), I got two out of three. I don't mind the radiator at all. I guess it's all personal preferance. From what I've read on this board, the liquid-cooled engine is a good idea in places like DFW (with our hot summer weather and stop-and-go riding on suburban roads).
 

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The s83 is a great bike, more powerful and better at high speeds, but not a quick 0-60 as the 800/ s50. It is not as agile in the curves, but it is a better bike on the interstate and it carries a passenger better. The 'little radiator' is an oil cooler: oil is cooled and then sprayed on the bottom of the rear piston, as the rear cylinder does not get enough air flow to keep it cool. These bikes last just as long as the 800's do.
As for performance mods, if you don't want to change or drill out the exhaust for more air flow out of the motor, then anything you do to increase air flow into the motor is a waste of money. If you open up the exhaust, then the addition of high-flow intake filters, plus drilling additional holes in (or just removing) the intake air boxes, really wakes up the motor. New jets are called for to provide enough fuel to mix with the increased air. But it does no good to open up the intake side if the exhaust side is still restrictive. But fear not: even dead stock, with the quiet stock pipes, the s83/ Intruder 1400 is a real beast, with more than enough torque to break the rear wheel loose or pull up the front end at will. The low-end grunt is tremendous, and if you keep the stock exhaust the factory set up on the engine is best left alone.
 

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Texas Jay said:
When looking for a bike, I got as much info from my friend (the motorcycle mechanic) as possible. He said I should look for a:

1) liquid-cooled,
2) shaft-driven,
3) 1400 cc bike.

With the VS 800 (the 2004 version of the S50), I got two out of three. I don't mind the radiator at all. I guess it's all personal preferance. From what I've read on this board, the liquid-cooled engine is a good idea in places like DFW (with our hot summer weather and stop-and-go riding on suburban roads).

yup...ttenn mentioned he wants to drive back roads, smaller highways, so i would agree with liquid cooled, especially in Texas with the dry heat. Shaft driven is a low maintenance smoother shifting ride than a chain i believe.
 

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Pinhy - How's that '81 Suzuki working out? I think you posted photos of it about a month ago. How does it ride?
 

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Texas Jay said:
Pinhy - How's that '81 Suzuki working out? I think you posted photos of it about a month ago. How does it ride?

its a beast...haha...ive had it 3 weeks now. went one one 120 mile ride with some friends a couple weeks ago. last weekend was the MSF course. got my lic. yesterday...going on another ride this sunday. its top heavy and cold natured....but it gets the job done for a while.

got to ride my friends VTX1300 up and down a dead end street, and it feels so much more "grounded". lower center of gravity, and much smoother....cant wait to upgrade to the M50.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Pinhy said:
wants to drive back roads, smaller highways, so i would agree with liquid cooled, especially in Texas with the dry heat.

Pinhy, how does oil (liquid) cooled (S83) differ from water (liquid) cooled (S50)? I am assuming you meant oil liquid instead of water liquid.
 

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I'm going to try to answer this, although I may be in over my head.

The water-cooled S50, with a radiator, operates like any car. Water (or probably a "coolant") is circulated around the engine to keep it cool.

The air/oil-cooled S83 does *not* have a conventional radiator to circulate coolant around the engine. It is essentially air-cooled (like nearly all Harleys and old VW Beetles) but there's a slight difference: I think I read a post by DrBob that said cool oil is sprayed (?) onto the rear cylinder, presumably because it doesn't get as much airflow as the front cylinder.

I wonder if the Harleys have that same oil-cooling feature on their "air-cooled" engines?

I hope I haven't screwed that up too much.
 

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Jay, you pretty much have it. When a bike is described as 'liquid cooled' like the 800/S50, it has a radiator filled with either a water/ anti-freeze mix or a waterless Propylene Glycol liquid. The liquid is pumped around the motor to uniformly cool it. Bikes designed like this are very, very hard to overheat, and do not suffer from vapor lock, but they do take longer to warm up. And, of course, there are more things to break, like water pumps, radiators, electric fans, and hoses. A water/ anti-freeze mix like the 800/ S50 needs to be changed occationally, while a pure Propylene Glycol is good for just about the life of the bike.
An oil cooled motor like the 1400/ S83, air provides most of the cooling by blowing directly in the motor, while the engine lubricating oil is cooled via an external oil cooler that has air flowing through it. The cooled oil in a 1400/ S83 is sprayed up onto the bottom of the rear cylinder, while splashing from the crankshaft provides cool oil to the front cylinder. The cooling is not as effective and consistent as with liquid cooling, but there is nothing to break on the system and the cool oil directly on the bearings and wear parts helps increase their life. But a motor with oil cooling is less forgiving if you gum the motor up by not changing the oil. And while a liquid cooled motor will sit and idle all day without overheating, a oil/ air cooled motor can only cool itself when the bike is moving.
Both bikes have an excellent reputation for reliability, so I would say that both are good designs. My personal preference is for liquid cooled bikes.
A Harley v-twin, by the way, does not have oil cooling.
 

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So the Suzuki engine design on the S83 with the oil-cooling feature is superior to the Harley engines of the same size (without the oil-cooling)? Or is it not that significant?
 

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ttenn said:
Pinhy, how does oil (liquid) cooled (S83) differ from water (liquid) cooled (S50)? I am assuming you meant oil liquid instead of water liquid.

what everyone else just said! hahaha

i could have never described it like these guys did. i just knew that liquid cooled rather than air cooled was the way to go. sitting in traffic a air cooled can get a little hot.
 

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Texas Jay said:
So the Suzuki engine design on the S83 with the oil-cooling feature is superior to the Harley engines of the same size (without the oil-cooling)? Or is it not that significant?
The HD v-twins don't need the oil cooling, though an aftermarket oil cooler is a popular add on if you do performance mods. Unlike the Harley, which has separate cases and fluid supplies for the motor and trans, the Suzuki designs put both in the same case using the same supply of oil, so they need a little help to keep cool.
So is the Suzuki better? No, just different.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Great, thanks. I was just getting hung up on the water = liquid and oil = not "liquid" thing. Last time I was in chemistry, oil was a liquid.... but now I understand.

So... around here in the Texas heat (supposed to snow tonight ;-) ), I want a 1400, shaft drive, liquid (water) cooled bike. Neither the S50 or S83 are all these.
 

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ttenn said:
Great, thanks. I was just getting hung up on the water = liquid and oil = not "liquid" thing. Last time I was in chemistry, oil was a liquid.... but now I understand.

So... around here in the Texas heat (supposed to snow tonight ;-) ), I want a 1400, shaft drive, liquid (water) cooled bike. Neither the S50 or S83 are all these.
Either would be a good choice, or the 1500/ C90. All three have reputations for being reliable and problem free...I know several folks with over 100,000 miles and counting on their 1500s, and my last 800 went 8 years and 132,000 miles without a single mechanical failure. The current one has run up 12,000 miles just since October with no problems so far. The Intruder Owners club has dozens of members in Texas, and none have had overheating problems with the oil cooled 1400/ S83. I like the water cooled, but the main reason I went with the 800 instead of the 1400 is that I have short legs and the 800 fits me better. I also like the light weight and agility when I play here in the North Georgia mountains.
 

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ttenn said:
So... around here in the Texas heat (supposed to snow tonight ;-) ), I want a 1400, shaft drive, liquid (water) cooled bike. Neither the S50 or S83 are all these.

i hate to say this on these forums, but...

how about a Honda VTX1300 ? it is a great looking and feeling bike. good price at around 9k too.

also could go with Kawasaki Vulcan 1500.

just trying to be helpful.
 

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ttenn said:
So... around here in the Texas heat (supposed to snow tonight ;-) ), I want a 1400, shaft drive, liquid (water) cooled bike. Neither the S50 or S83 are all these.
Well, I'm (obviously) partial to the C50 - covers the shaft drive and liquid cooled part (as well as adding fuel injected to the list)..

but if the 800 is a deal breaker...

The C90 is also a 2 out of 3; I'm sure there is some reason that the 83 and the 90 are air/oil cooled while the 50 and 95 are water. But I don't know what it is.

Which brings up the M95 (if your dealer can ever get one)... that covers the shaft, liquid and injection, but adds an additional 150 or so cc's.

Which is about the same as the Vulcan 1500, which covers all three bases (plus fuel injection).

Bottom line... whatever floats your boat, dude. It's your money :)
 
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