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Turning

7K views 49 replies 19 participants last post by  Gixxerman 
#1 ·
Well, out in the middle of the state we were cruising along at 65-70 mph in a 65 zone and the road was doing some left - right S-turns.

i learned that i am still not all that great at making too sharp a turn at speeds around 50+. I felt like i was steering the bike to stay on line rather than pressing and counter balancing. at 45 i fell pretty good hitting some nice twists, but started to feel a little "scared" today..."felt" like i might run through the curve or lean it too far and fall.

if those turns were a little closer to home (they are probably about 50 miles or so) i would go back out there tomorrow and just run them back and forth until i learned the right way to do it! (i might do that one of these weekends though).

meanwhile i am going to find a road closer to home to work on it.
 
#3 ·
One thing to keep in mind while your still on the upside of the learning curve (pun intended)... just because the buddies your riding with take the S's at 65-70 doesn't mean you can't slow it up a bit and catch them on the straight. If it feels uncomfortable, it probably isn't a good idea.

Oh - and take Trapper's advice...

one more thing... if you aren't dragging a peg, you aren't that close to leaning too far ;-)
 
#4 ·
im guessing Proficient Motorcycling" is a book? i'll look into it.

as for my friends, we have about the same experience, it just seems i am more "scared" to lean the bike. i KNOW it will go further safely, but i cant talk myself into doing it at that speed. i can do it at slower speeds though.

you are TOTALLY right about not having to do it at the same speed as my riding buddies. i did slow more than our leader (and had another behind me). like i mentioned, i just felt like i could have done it better.

i want to learn and i need to go out and hit the same curves over and over rather than waiting for a new curve and having it be new and be nervous each time.

im dense, what can i say!
 
#6 ·
I've been sort of grappling with this a bit lately too. I ride the same roads and curves every day to work and I'd sort of mistaken my ability to take the same curves at the same perfect entry and exit points everyday for some sort of curve handling skill that I don't really have. I get outside my daily routine and I quickly find my cornering skills arn't what I think they are I just have my daily commute memorized. Here's a couple things I've been doing to get my cornering working a little better:

1) Pay attention to the turn, get a little wide, understand the delayed apex thing and work it so you are turning into the turn at the right point, for me it always seems to be just a little later than I think.

2) Look all the way through the turn, the bike is going to go where you look so look at the exit of the turn, where you want to go, and only glance at whats right in front of you and adjust if needed. If you do this I think you'll find you have to adjust less and if anything you are on the inside of the turn not going out and feeling like you're going to go off the road, or in my case, in the jersy wall. Looking through the turn is the hardest part for me, I can't help but try to look right in front of me, it's hard to get the faith that the bike is going to go where you want it to. I think I get myself extra freaked out because most of the turns I do are freeway on/off ramps with no shoulder, often way up in the air going over some other road, jersy walls all around and invariably some dude who wants to take it at 70mph right behind me.

3) Cruisers sit you back a little far and you may feel like even though you are counter steering properly the bike isn't responding enough to your input. The fix is to give the bike a little more input by leaning forward a bit in as you enter the turn. This allows you to put more pressure on the grips and push a little harder getting the counter-steer response that you're after. It also gives you the extra leverage to apply more counter steer if necessary. Again this cuts down on that going off the road feeling, for me at least.
 
#8 ·
There are lots of things to keep in mind when going through the twisties ... here are some of the things that go through my head:

* Never ride faster than your line of sight. You don't know what's around the next curve, and you may have to come to a full stop or make a last-second adjustment to avoid some obsticle. Blasting around a "blind" corner at 50mph is dangerous and stupid.

* You can always lean farther. Like C50tiger said, if you aren't dragging a peg, you still have more lean available if you need it. Just push harder on the inside grip.

* Keep an eye on the road condition. Most twisties are in the mountains, and there have been alot of rockslides and mudslides recently. In addition, they have dropped alot of "splitt" (small stones, don't know what it's called in English) on the roads to improve traction on ice and snow. Now they are just lying there waiting for a motorcycle to slide out on them...

* Unless you are on a track or in an organised race, there's no reward for being the fastest or first. Being faster than everyone just means that you'll have to wait longer for them to get through. Ride within your safety envelope, and ride your own ride. Your friends will wait for you if you need 5 minutes more to get through the canyon. If they don't wait, they aren't your friends, and you shouldn't ride with them anymore anyway.
 
#11 ·
inspiron said:
* Keep an eye on the road condition. Most twisties are in the mountains, and there have been alot of rockslides and mudslides recently. In addition, they have dropped alot of "splitt" (small stones, don't know what it's called in English) on the roads to improve traction on ice and snow.
We just call them rocks :wink:

Seriously, they don't have to do that sort of thing around here... but we do have to watch for small piles of hay dropped off the back of farm trailers, badly patched bits of asphalt in the apex of corners, mud from logging trucks tracked up out of recent clear cuts and dirt and gravel washed up from unpaved roads that intersect the main roads.
 
#12 ·
inspiron said:
* You can always lean farther. Like C50tiger said, if you aren't dragging a peg, you still have more lean available if you need it. Just push harder on the inside grip.
And for gods sake slide one of your skinny arse cheeks off that seat in the deep curves, you keep the bike more upright for traction but you can roll on harder due to the weight still being over the center of gravity. Sportbike techniques have their place in the sport crusier and chopper world too.

:)
 
#13 ·
Those "sportbike techniques" that you speak of take away valuable safety margins in angle and traction. Hanging off is foolish on the street.
 
#16 · (Edited)
themeatmanlandry said:
Be careful is all I can say. Reading books on track techniques can be helpful, but it is often a double-edged sword.

Remember, it's a cruiser.
My friend (another Dale) finally realized that after grinding away pegs, most of the brake lever and flatting his pipes on a Magna. So he went and bought a sportbike. Now the cruiser rarely sees the roads!

http://www.labiker.com/members/?bikeslut
 
#17 ·
I occasionaly "move my arse" when riding, but it's not something I recommend to a beginner - you have to practice moving around in a controlled environment before trying it on the street. If you haven't practiced, the change can throw you completely off balance and cause a crash.

And when I said "Keep an eye on the road condition", I meant dirt, sand, mud, stones, cowpies, roadkill, diesel and other things that may be there waiting to steal your traction.
 
#21 ·
moving your body to the inside of the turn moves the CG so that the bike can stay more verticle keeping a larger contact patch. How does that take away traction? It wasn't suggested that he lean the bike over far enough to hit the edge of his tires, just move the body so the bike can stay more upright allowing for more traction.
 
#22 ·
prekarious1 said:
moving your body to the inside of the turn moves the CG so that the bike can stay more verticle keeping a larger contact patch. How does that take away traction? It wasn't suggested that he lean the bike over far enough to hit the edge of his tires, just move the body so the bike can stay more upright allowing for more traction.
:)
 
#23 · (Edited)
Nexus242 said:
opinion or fact??
It's most certainly a fact. If you need to hang off in order to take a corner at the speed you're at, you're that much closer to a trip into the weeds. Put another way, if you're at the edge of traction while sitting centered in the saddle, you have the margin of error created by then hanging off. If, however, you're already hanging off, you have no such margin when the corner tightens unexpectedly, you encounter an obstacle, or you start to scrape hard parts.

As for the larger contact patch argument, most modern tires don't lose contact area until you reach the edge of the tire. It ain't flyin'.

It's common knowlege among experienced, learning riders that hanging off on the street is foolish and c0cky. Save it for the track.

Finally, I'll repeat my insistance that forums such as this often serve to reinforce and redistribute bad information when one ignorant person agrees with another. Make sure you know what you preach before you get on the pulpit. Save the smilies for something you know about, Nexus.
 
#24 ·
When I switched during racing season from the track to the street, I found myself riding like I was on the race track. Dragging knees on the street etc. I realized that was not very smart, and had to consciously tame it down a LOT.

Because I usually hold back quite a bit, that has saved me on numerous occasions from getting myself killed, literally.

Ride how you want, but make sure you can overcome the unexpected.

- Nut
 
#25 ·
RowdyRed94 said:
It's most certainly a fact. If you need to hang off in order to take a corner at the speed you're at, you're that much closer to a trip into the weeds. Put another way, if you're at the edge of traction while sitting centered in the saddle, you have the margin of error created by then hanging off. If, however, you're already hanging off, you have no such margin when the corner tightens unexpectedly, you encounter an obstacle, or you start to scrape hard parts.

As for the larger contact patch argument, most modern tires don't lose contact area until you reach the edge of the tire. It ain't flyin'.

It's common knowlege among experienced, learning riders that hanging off on the street is foolish and c0cky. Save it for the track.

Finally, I'll repeat my insistance that forums such as this often serve to reinforce and redistribute bad information when one ignorant person agrees with another. Make sure you know what you preach before you get on the pulpit. Save the smilies for something you know about, Nexus.
Well again I will state this is your opinion and not a fact nor is it an absolute.
 
#26 ·
inspiron said:
* Keep an eye on the road condition. Most twisties are in the mountains, and there have been alot of rockslides and mudslides recently. In addition, they have dropped alot of "splitt" (small stones, don't know what it's called in English) on the roads to improve traction on ice and snow. Now they are just lying there waiting for a motorcycle to slide out on them...

They're called "Pebbles"
 
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