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never needed to soak, carbs are not encrusted.whats the problem the jets are removed with a screwdriver and carb cleaner comes with a wand. stick the wand in the hole and watch it squirt out the other end.the main problem is removing and installing the carbs without damaging them.taking your time and not rushing is the only way.kinda like voting, should be limited to people over a certain age.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
OK, so what do you consider "the recommended start proceedure" to be ?

It should be: Choke fully closed, hand OFF of the throttle and crank.
When it sputters to life, a little throttle will usually help.
When it comes up to "fast idle", then the choke can be reduced.

Carb cleaners do NOT work instantly. They often need a few hot/cold engine cycles for best results.

Are you SURE that the choke (or enricher) is working right after re-assembly ?
Are you doing all of this testing with the air cleaner OFF......or a high flow one in place ?
That in itself can add to the problem.
I guess I could try it w/out the air cleaner.

It should be: Choke fully closed, hand OFF of the throttle and crank.
When it sputters to life, a little throttle will usually help.
When it comes up to "fast idle", then the choke can be reduced.
That's how I do it. One time it sputtered to life and I used the throttle and yeah it helped but usually it'll be firing occasionally and then bang it's up an running. I have been setting the idle on full fast with the knob control to keep it running and then back it way down once it's warm. Then it sounds real nice. That's how it went yesterday. Temp 55F used start fluid. ran battery down so put it on charger fast start and it took right off almost. I'll keep doing the cold start thing with the Berryman's. This problem is just the same as when I got the bike. Just as hard to start nothing has changed much if at all. How about just buying new carbs? Aren't they around $80? But then why did it get that way originally? Just turned 20,000 miles. I only drained one carb-the other's screw slots are stripped. I tried the punch and hammer thing. tapping to drive it c clockwise but no. May have to drill and use an extractor.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
never needed to soak, carbs are not encrusted.whats the problem the jets are removed with a screwdriver and carb cleaner comes with a wand. stick the wand in the hole and watch it squirt out the other end.the main problem is removing and installing the carbs without damaging them.taking your time and not rushing is the only way.kinda like voting, should be limited to people over a certain age.
I soaked the jets. ran a fine wire, never mixed up, they were clear and clean.
 

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what do the plugs look like? i don't think it will run without the aircleaner unless your shooting starting fluid in.if it does run it might be to rich, just a thought.your original post. hard to start. i think these bikes are set to lean, and a to low idle screw setting can make them hard to start.i would increase the mixture screws a quarter turn.
 

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I guess I could try it w/out the air cleaner.
I have been setting the idle on full fast with the knob control to keep it running
The idle adjustment screw/knob should NOT be set to "fast" before trying to start it.
That is the same mistake as opening the throttle with your hand.
And the choke knob or lever should accomplish that anyway.
Are you sure that the choke is working.....and staying in the ON position until you move it ???
I had an S50 where the choke would not stay fully on; it was a bit hard to start sometimes.

And removing the air cleaner will likely just make matters worse.
Does it have a stock air filter ?
If not, that might be a major part of the problem.
 

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i don't think it will run without the aircleaner unless your shooting starting fluid in.if it does run it might be to rich,
Are you feeling OK ??
Absence of an air filter will make it LEAN, not rich.

And the idle "jets" are not usually adjustable OR removable.
If there is an adjustment screw for idle it almost always is an AIR adjustment.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
what do the plugs look like? i don't think it will run without the aircleaner unless your shooting starting fluid in.if it does run it might be to rich, just a thought.your original post. hard to start. i think these bikes are set to lean, and a to low idle screw setting can make them hard to start.i would increase the mixture screws a quarter turn.
I can look but they were new in june or july
 

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Discussion Starter #28
The idle adjustment screw/knob should NOT be set to "fast" before trying to start it.
That is the same mistake as opening the throttle with your hand.
And the choke knob or lever should accomplish that anyway.
Are you sure that the choke is working.....and staying in the ON position until you move it ???
I had an S50 where the choke would not stay fully on; it was a bit hard to start sometimes.

And removing the air cleaner will likely just make matters worse.
Does it have a stock air filter ?
If not, that might be a major part of the problem.
I'll check on the air cleaner just get a new one. Got it on the idle adjust. I was doing that to keep it running when cold. The choke acts like it's working..sure makes a dif when you move it around. It started half way good today after sitting overnight-ran it yesterday. A shot of start fluid and put on the charger fast start position. I was surprised. warmer today in the 60's.
 

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i feel empty, lack of stimulation......i don't think the bike should run without the air cleaner because the carbs are set lean from the factory.if it runs without the air cleaner the carb might be set to rich.who knows what the previous owner did. the idle mixture is a screw and fully adjustable. the pilot jet is changeable.the 650s idle should be set at 1200.you need a tach.some people turn the idle low so it sounds like a harley.if the idle is set to high it can change the tps settings and advance the timing which can cause starter kickback. the idle should be set with a tach. and the tps should be checked to make sure its in range. check the color of the plugs, color will tell if your lean or rich.there hasn't been points since the seventies.
 

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Check the plugs....if they are wet then it is almost certainly an electrical fault....even just one of the cylinders failing to spark every time will cause difficult starting as one cylinder is trying to turn the other without any assistance from it firing. You need a good fat blue spark from both plugs...I suggest you take each one out and short them to the cylinder while cranking the engine.
 

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It started half way good today after sitting overnight-ran it yesterday.
Highly unlikely that is has points.
But is could just need to "soak" the carb cleaner for a few more days with a few runs to heat it up along the way.
 
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